MEETING SUMMARY

Subject: Visit of Palestinian National Committee for the Register of Damages to UN Register of Damage?s headquarters in Vienna

Date:  29-30 July 2008

Location:  Vienna, Austria

Attendees:  Tayseer Khaled, Dr. Jad Issac, Hala Rashed, Hazim Shabat (PLO embassy in Austria)

Note taker:  Hala Rashed

Schedule

1.  29 Jul, 11:30am-1pm  Meeting with Board members and Secretariat staff
2.  29 Jul, 1-2:30pm  Lunch with Board members
3.  30 Jul, 3:30-5pm   Meeting with Board members

Summary

At the invitation of UNRoD, the Palestinian National Committee for the Register of Damage (PNC) sent Tayseer Khaled (TK), Dr. Jad Issac (JI) and Hala Rashed (HR) to Vienna to meet with UNRoD. We met with the three members of the Board, as well as all staff in the Secretariat. It was a good opportunity to establish relations with all of them. We had candid and constructive discussions with UNRoD thoughout our visit.

Much of our time was spent discussing the Claim Form to be used to collect information from claimants. UNRoD stated that it incorporated most of the PNC?s comments on the earlier draft of the Claim Form. They raised three major exceptions: (1) non-material damages would not be considered receivable, (2) questions on the valuation of damages would be limited, and (3) a single claim form would be used as opposed to three separate claim forms (individuals, corporations, public entities). They shared the latest draft of the Claim Form with us, and we agreed to provide comments by 6 August.

We also raised the need to have a plan of action to operationalize the Register on the ground in the West Bank. Their plan is to initially hire, and train in Vienna, 7 Palestinians to serve as Claim Intakers on the ground. The Claim Intakers would work as a mobile team in one or two areas of the northern West Bank and possibly the Jerusalem area, beginning as early as Autumn 2008, to assist claimants in filing their claims. UNRoD anticipated expanding its operations to include more Claims Intakers and more locations in the West Bank starting next year. We urged them to develop a detailed and comprehensive plan of action, setting out timetables, roles, logistics, expenses, etc.

We also reiterated certain points that were raised with UNRoD in the past. Key among them is that we should not lose sight of the key objective, which is full implementation of the ICJ Advisory Opinion (i.e., stopping Wall construction, removing the Wall and providing reparations); that the applicable laws should be international law and, where applicable, local Palestinian (or Jordanian) laws, not Israeli domestic or military laws; and that we respect UNRoD?s independence though the PNC should have a consultative role in the process. We also briefed them on the latest facts on the ground.

UNRoD Staff

•  Ronald Bettauer, Board member (RB)
•  Matti Pellonpaa, Board member (MP)
•  Harumi Hori, Board member
•  Vladimir Goryayev, Executive Director (VG)
•  Guillaume Blanc, Coordinating Officer (GB)
•  Katherine Ryan, Senior Legal Advisor
•  Omar Salem, Claims Officer (lawyer)
•  Mable ?, Claims Officer (lawyer)
•  Fadia Nahhas, Community Outreach Officer
•  Others

1.  29 Jul, 11:30am-1pm Meeting with Board members and Secretariat staff

(We initially met only with the three Board members, the Executive Director and a few of the staff.)

VG

•  Welcome.
•  Thanks for comments on Claim Form. Incorporated most of them.
•  Three major exceptions to this are: (1) non-material damage, (2) valuation, (3) separate claim forms.

MP

•  Tell us a bit about the PNC.

TK

•  [Summarised mandate of PNC and creation of sub-committees].

(We joined the rest of the staff.)

VG

•  [Introductions of all the staff].
•  We would like to know what your expectations are. The floor is yours.

TK

•  Thank you.
•  Your visit in April was very good.
•  You saw that the Wall was not about security.
•  The ICJ Advisory Opinion says that the OPT is occupied territory.
•  The Advisory Opinion also held that Israel must (1) stop Wall construction, (2) remove the Wall, and (3) provide reparations.
•  Four years after the Advisory Opinion, Israel is still constructing the Wall. 66% is already constructed, and 10% is under construction.
•  In Palestine, the people marked the fourth anniversary of the Advisory Opinion. You should know that there is popular criticism against the PLO and the UN because the people are frustrated.
•  Therefore, we ask you what is your plan of action? People want to see justice from you. We don?t expect more than your mandate allows, but you can do something to make Pals feel you are working for justice.
•  We already agreed with VG to start work and get something done by November.
•  You may encounter obstacles, both technical and political. We, however, will do all we can to help. However, you also need things from Israel, e.g., access to documents.
•  I assure you that we don?t want to jeopardize your independence.
•  And if any of you are concerned about us establishing a parallel register, don?t worry ? we already laid this issue to rest with VG.
•  Your work should be transparent.
•  Here are just a few of the questions we have for you: What will your presence be on the ground in the West Bank? You do not expect to operate remotely (from Vienna)? What do you view to be the applicable law? What has happened with the Claim Form?

VG

•  Your remarks touched on many different things. Because of the time, I won?t respond to all of them now, though I expect you will have your answers before you leave.
•  We received all your comments on the Claim Form. Almost all of them were taken into account. We don?t have an updated Claim Form yet because the Board is going through it. Once finished, we?ll report to you with the product we have.
•  We all want to move forward as quickly as possible. Time is not on our side. But we should not do things in haste.
•  Now we?re thinking about operationalizing the Register. We know that Vienna is not an optional location.
•  We are looking to train Pals as Claim Intakers, assisted by a few foreign staff. They will operate in certain areas at first.
•  This should be seen by everyone as a UN exercise, impartial and independent.
•  We?ll rely on the PNC for many things. We need to get out posters, leaflets, TV spots, radio spots. Maybe newspapers will be willing to run ads for free.
•  We aim to register the first claims in November. This is ambitious.
•  Your presence here today is very reassuring.
•  Floor is open for discussion.

MP

•  With respect to your question about the applicable law, we base ourselves on the UNGA resolutions, international law, evidentiary standards from state practice, sometimes local law.

TK

•  I have a question for you. When will you [Board members] come to visit us in the OPT?

RB

•  Eventually.
•  It is good to see such close co-operation between us.

HR

•  Going back to the issue of the applicable law, one of the things that concern us is how you are going to determine property ownership. Only one third of the West Bank is registered. And Israel has had a policy of trying to blur ownership in the West Bank and of transferring land to different people over the course of its 40-year occupation. From our point of view, these transactions are illegal under international law. So your office will have to sift through competing claims and sort them out according to international law and the applicable local law, not Israeli law.

TK

•  Only 13% of the WB was considered public land by Jordan. Israel artificially raised this to maybe 60%.

VG

•  UNRoD?s mandate is limited. We will exercise a relaxed standard of proof. We are not mandated to resolve all land claims.

JI

•  [Gave a Powerpoint presentation on the latest developments on the ground].

1.  29 Jul, 1-2:30pm  Lunch with Board members

[This was an informal meeting. During the lunch, VG explained that they are initially starting with 7 Palestinians who will be trained in Vienna (for about a week) and who will operate as a mobile team in one or two areas of the northern West Bank and possibly Jerusalem area to assist claimants in filing their claims. They will work off the hard copy Claim Forms, not on laptops. Eventually, this will be expanded.]

1.  30 Jul, 3:30-5pm   Meeting with Board members

[Meeting had already started.]

…

TK

•  [Some disagreement about the Claim Form].

VG

•  We are on the same side of the table, but we speak different languages perhaps.
•  For us to serve Palestinian interests in the best way possible, we must be a body that operates independently, impartially. UNRoD reports to the UNGA.

TK

•  Give us the Claim Form. Perhaps we won?t have any changes.

VG

•  We are interested in your views. We spent 7 hours with you in Ramallah, and asked many questions. We wanted to take a Pal lawyer, your lawyer, and he turned out not very patriotic.

JI

•  Who is it?

VG

•  I won?t disclose the name.

TK

•  We are interested in knowing who.
•  We want to review the Claim Form.
•  We respect your independence, but we have a right to input.

VG

•  If we have to get your approval, we won?t be independent.

JI

•  How did the UNCC work?

RB

•  The rules and claim form were approved by the Governing Council. They were not discussed with the Kuwaitis.

TK

•  You said you took 90% of our comments on the Claim Form. What about the 10%? What did you not take?

JI

•  We have every right to look at the Claim Form. We are the ones who have to face our people.

HR

•  How about we take a 5-minute break?

[Break]

TK

•  We fully respect your independence.
•  Please do not impose things on us.
•  It is important that that you represent justice.
•  We only ask to see the Claim Form, give us a week, up to you to take our comments or not.
•  The ICJ Opinion was issued in 2004. We have been patient with the UN. I think we can take a week to review the Claim Form.

VG

•  What does it mean to you “independence”?

TK

•  We won?t interfere. We won?t dictate.

VG

•  One condition: You don?t share it with NGOs.

JI

•  Al-Haq is part of the PNC. Issa represent Habitant on our PNC.
•  Abu Morad, you have to hold a closed meeting where we will review the hard copy.

TK

•  Yes, I promise to do that.

JI

•  Frankly, I became suspicious when you said you took only 90% of our comments.

VG

•  You [Palestinians] were the ones who came to us and asked for our [UN] help.

[VG meets privately with Board members for a few minutes.]

VG

•  The Claim Form says “this document is the property of the UN.” That means that we decide who to give it to, when, where. I am giving a hard copy to TK. I want comments by Wednesday. If we don?t get your comments by then, we will assume the Claim Form is fine. We hope it is. We think it also meets international standards.

TK

•  I want to raise another issue. Yesterday, there was a boy who was killed during a peaceful demonstration against the Wall. I have personally suffered injury in February, but I won?t be claiming compensation. People who have heart disease can?t get medical assistance.

VG

•  You raise apples and oranges. Access to medical care for the heart patient is covered. But demonstrations are not because there is no direct causality.
•  Katherine worked in Kosovo, on forced labour, in South Africa.
•  Omar has claims experience.
•  Mable has UNCC experience.

JI

•  If the boy?s land was on the other side of the Wall, would that turn him from an orange to an apple?

RB

•  Look at the Claim Form.

TK

•  Now, another issue is that the staff you propose on the ground is small. You said only 7.

VG

•  I agree. It is small. The start team depends on the amount of money we have. The UNSG will report to the UNGA. Without a claim form, the UNSG will not report. It?s the UNGA who decides about money. It is the EU and Japan who are paying into this mostly.

HR

•  Frankly, I was expecting a more comprehensive operational plan: how many people, how many intake posts, laptops, etc.

VG

•  …
•  We thought about giving the Claim Intakers laptops. You can ask Mable, Katherine. It would be bad, even put the Intakers in danger.
•  We are looking at candidates now for Intakers. If you have suggestions, we will consider them.

TK

•  When will you have an office in the West Bank?

VG

•  We are not planning an office in the West Bank now. The Intakers are our presence.

TK

•  When will you [Board members] come to the OPT?

VG

•  When there is a need.